It could be just me but I thought his comment wasn't as bad as the Internet made it out to be. Ignorant for sure but it's not really something to be condemned or have a "downfall" for. At the end of the day, like you mentioned, they are still men, of course they don't understand womanhood like a woman does.
loved reading this! it really is so interesting to see these men who are one day randomly deemed ‘male feminists who ‘get’ it’ or ‘wife guys’ put up on a pedestal which they will inevitably fall from, as they are men and simply don’t have the experiences of womanhood to ever fully empathise or relate. i think it’s unfair for all parties.
I feel like the WBOTM Fall From Grace is a relative of the idea that any kind of ‘woke media’ (anything made by, for, or featuring marginalised communities) is more likely to be crucified by public opinion than those that don’t even try to be truly inclusive, because inevitably it will fail to deliver in some way, whereas you can’t fail if you don’t try.
In this case, the WBOTM isn’t even necessarily trying; as you’ve said, he’s just a (seemingly) sensitive dude who once wore a mitski t-shirt, so we the public project all these traits and expectations onto him, and turn away in disgust when he doesn’t meet them. (Which is not a lateral comparison to the above in terms of the outcome to their careers or wellbeing - heaven knows white cishet men with fame and money don’t need protecting and are will not be as badly affected as poc/ queer creators - but it does feel somewhat unfair nonetheless.)
"(...) as Saoirse said, it did open the door to have conversations about how women tend to be the ones who teach men about human decency and highlight the struggles we go through."
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and you put it perfectly! There are so many things men don't think about because it's not part of their experience or their day-to-day life, and it's somewhat baffling that a woman must point it out for them to really notice (and, maybe, understand) it.
such an important piece of culture writing, like the way this cycle has become a norm now is wild. an essay i'll be referring people to for years. you guys ate down xx
awwww, thank you for reading and for your words!! i was even hesitant to write about this because i thought, “who cares?” but i am the happiest girl now that i know it is resonating with people.
I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, I always get tingles when I see a notification that you liked anything I posted because your thoughts are so, so important to me!! And knowing you loved something that Luisa and I did is literally so important to me! It’s like my favorite people interacting with my favorite people and omg I could go on LOL but for now I’ll just say thank you a million times, omg!!! ✨✨🥹🥹🥹
when I say the feeling is mutual, believe me 🥹🥹🥹🥹 i'm so in love with your work and your writing and your generosity. know that you have an eternal fan in me!!!! sending you so much love. this was everything 🤌🏿🤌🏿🤌🏿💕💕💕💕💕
I think at my age I haven't fallen down the social media rabbit hole. I've walked the edge but never dropped in. I understand it from the view of the 30s, 40s, and 50s film stars in the magazines. It's the same thing just faster exposure with instant data flowing. Plus women and some small nicer of men, maybe, are more aware of the issues women face. I hope. Thank you for such a good piece. We'll done.
hi Mark!! Thank you for reading! It’s funny how some things never change when it comes to celebrity culture, no matter how deep you’re involved with the online world!!
Great analysis! At 57, I am probably not the demographic for this story, although I am learning so much from you younger, wiser women. As I write my memoir about the year after my husband died, I'm thinking a lot about my younger self (I was clueless). Rather than a midlife crisis, women have a midlife rebirth after years spent raising children and running a household (in addition to having full time jobs outside the home).
There's so much we are learning and I hope we can share some of our hard won wisdom with you (as you so generously share with us) so you fare better in relationships and marriages than we did. I usually don't link articles in the comments, but since I didn't write it I'm not guilty of shameless self promotion (which I'm not above it). Thank you again for a wonderful article!
Do you not like sex or do you just not like patriarchal sex?
This was great! WBOTM is such an interesting phenomena and I loved that you acknowledged part of the downfall often starts when they're attached to a significant other. I was totally guilty of feeling like this when I was younger and watched the celebrity I assumed was my soul mate (Zac Efron? you can still call me lol) get into a relationship and become even more unobtainable. It's only gotten worse as the internet has provided more access to their every move and it's fascinating to watch how quickly the cycle goes these days. Again, well done!
It could be just me but I thought his comment wasn't as bad as the Internet made it out to be. Ignorant for sure but it's not really something to be condemned or have a "downfall" for. At the end of the day, like you mentioned, they are still men, of course they don't understand womanhood like a woman does.
loved reading this! it really is so interesting to see these men who are one day randomly deemed ‘male feminists who ‘get’ it’ or ‘wife guys’ put up on a pedestal which they will inevitably fall from, as they are men and simply don’t have the experiences of womanhood to ever fully empathise or relate. i think it’s unfair for all parties.
LEAH!!!!! yes!! you’re so right omg exactly! you nailed it
Brilliantly written.
I feel like the WBOTM Fall From Grace is a relative of the idea that any kind of ‘woke media’ (anything made by, for, or featuring marginalised communities) is more likely to be crucified by public opinion than those that don’t even try to be truly inclusive, because inevitably it will fail to deliver in some way, whereas you can’t fail if you don’t try.
In this case, the WBOTM isn’t even necessarily trying; as you’ve said, he’s just a (seemingly) sensitive dude who once wore a mitski t-shirt, so we the public project all these traits and expectations onto him, and turn away in disgust when he doesn’t meet them. (Which is not a lateral comparison to the above in terms of the outcome to their careers or wellbeing - heaven knows white cishet men with fame and money don’t need protecting and are will not be as badly affected as poc/ queer creators - but it does feel somewhat unfair nonetheless.)
point is, we are projecting our fantasies on these men to later be disappointed they didn’t fulfill it. it’s crazyyyy.
thank you for reading and commenting 💕
"(...) as Saoirse said, it did open the door to have conversations about how women tend to be the ones who teach men about human decency and highlight the struggles we go through."
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and you put it perfectly! There are so many things men don't think about because it's not part of their experience or their day-to-day life, and it's somewhat baffling that a woman must point it out for them to really notice (and, maybe, understand) it.
yes! there is definetly a space to have conversations, especially with the ones who are willing to listen
such an important piece of culture writing, like the way this cycle has become a norm now is wild. an essay i'll be referring people to for years. you guys ate down xx
awwww, thank you for reading and for your words!! i was even hesitant to write about this because i thought, “who cares?” but i am the happiest girl now that i know it is resonating with people.
I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, I always get tingles when I see a notification that you liked anything I posted because your thoughts are so, so important to me!! And knowing you loved something that Luisa and I did is literally so important to me! It’s like my favorite people interacting with my favorite people and omg I could go on LOL but for now I’ll just say thank you a million times, omg!!! ✨✨🥹🥹🥹
when I say the feeling is mutual, believe me 🥹🥹🥹🥹 i'm so in love with your work and your writing and your generosity. know that you have an eternal fan in me!!!! sending you so much love. this was everything 🤌🏿🤌🏿🤌🏿💕💕💕💕💕
I think at my age I haven't fallen down the social media rabbit hole. I've walked the edge but never dropped in. I understand it from the view of the 30s, 40s, and 50s film stars in the magazines. It's the same thing just faster exposure with instant data flowing. Plus women and some small nicer of men, maybe, are more aware of the issues women face. I hope. Thank you for such a good piece. We'll done.
hi Mark!! Thank you for reading! It’s funny how some things never change when it comes to celebrity culture, no matter how deep you’re involved with the online world!!
I feel really old reading all of this. Like there is an internet culture I know nothing about lol. Very insightful.
Great analysis! At 57, I am probably not the demographic for this story, although I am learning so much from you younger, wiser women. As I write my memoir about the year after my husband died, I'm thinking a lot about my younger self (I was clueless). Rather than a midlife crisis, women have a midlife rebirth after years spent raising children and running a household (in addition to having full time jobs outside the home).
There's so much we are learning and I hope we can share some of our hard won wisdom with you (as you so generously share with us) so you fare better in relationships and marriages than we did. I usually don't link articles in the comments, but since I didn't write it I'm not guilty of shameless self promotion (which I'm not above it). Thank you again for a wonderful article!
Do you not like sex or do you just not like patriarchal sex?
https://open.substack.com/pub/celestemdavis/p/patriarchal-sex?r=39usm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Amy!! Thank you for this!! I love you!! ✨🥹🩷
This was great! WBOTM is such an interesting phenomena and I loved that you acknowledged part of the downfall often starts when they're attached to a significant other. I was totally guilty of feeling like this when I was younger and watched the celebrity I assumed was my soul mate (Zac Efron? you can still call me lol) get into a relationship and become even more unobtainable. It's only gotten worse as the internet has provided more access to their every move and it's fascinating to watch how quickly the cycle goes these days. Again, well done!
Fantastic essay: you get a really good purchase on this topic and have such a great, lucid style. Hugely enjoyable read---thank you!
thank, alice!! i’m glad you enjoyed it 💕